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betadood
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PostSubject: Re: Save Touge on the Forza Forums.   Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:20 pm

How many times do we have to go over that drifting is slow, not fast. Have you ever seen a professional racer drifting around a corner instead of gripping through it in a race? And that video doesn't prove anything, as the guy behind you looks more like a camera car for your drift rather than actually trying to race.

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A class (22B): New Downhill: 4:27.633 New Uphill: 4:38.230
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FullMoonKids
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PostSubject: Re: Save Touge on the Forza Forums.   Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:23 pm

you can keep thinking that, but it means you don't understand tire physics.

Drifting isnt about losing grip, its about the grip you maintain.
drifting to me is also not about the cars slip angle, but the tires slip angle in relation the the wheel/hub. forza dose a very good job at simulating tire twist and tire wall physics.

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PostSubject: Re: Save Touge on the Forza Forums.   Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:25 pm

If drifting is faster, then why is it that every one of the top drivers grip? If drifting is faster, why is it that only painfully slow drivers drift? There's a direct correlation between someone's time and how often they let their car slide.

I want to see one person that drifts during a replay and has made it in the top 100 of a track. Theory doesn't cut it.

FullMoonKids wrote:
you can keep thinking that, but it means you don't understand tire physics.

Drifting isnt about losing grip, its about the grip you maintain.
drifting to me is also not about the cars slip angle, but the tires slip angle in relation the the wheel/hub.  forza dose a very good job at simulating tire twist and tire wall physics.
And you can keep thinking that and remaining as slow as a turtle.

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FullMoonKids
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PostSubject: Re: Save Touge on the Forza Forums.   Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:32 pm

I can keep the pace.

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PostSubject: Re: Save Touge on the Forza Forums.   Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:32 pm

FullMoonKids wrote:
I can keep the pace.
Just curious, how fast is that "pace".

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B class (AE86): New Downhill: 4:33.632 New Uphill: 4:51.676
                                                      Old Downhill: 3:47.110 Old Uphill: 3:58.522
A class (22B): New Downhill: 4:27.633 New Uphill: 4:38.230
                                               Old Downhill: 3.41.310 Old Uphill: 3.54.605
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PostSubject: Re: Save Touge on the Forza Forums.   Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:34 pm

my pace is mild and chunky

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PostSubject: Re: Save Touge on the Forza Forums.   Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:37 pm

While funny and witty... it still doesnt answer the question. Run effectively and you will go faster.

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PostSubject: Re: Save Touge on the Forza Forums.   Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:39 pm

well, i never time attacked ndh, but few months ago when i found out that everyone in the online touge community hates odh and lotus lol. But i run around 4:45 with most tunes, ive pulled off dirty 4:40, most of my battles up till this year were done split screen also with good friends irl so i dont have much battle videos. I find drifting more fun and relaxing, battles stress me out.

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PostSubject: Re: Save Touge on the Forza Forums.   Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:42 pm

Ive flirted with fuzzybears Stage D A class record so many times it was maddening, Ive been on a run to beat his time about 20-30 times and would always end up getting psyched out/ dirty lap.

he truly was amazing

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PostSubject: Re: Save Touge on the Forza Forums.   Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:44 pm

Ummm, theres no way in hell i can run my NDH LB time drifting in the same car...
If my tires slip it'll cost me roughly a quarter second if not more every time.

Your grip pace must be pretty slow if it keeps up with your "race drift" pace.

"Race drift" doesnt apply to forza and you're hearing it from the fastest guys on Fujimi.

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PostSubject: Re: Save Touge on the Forza Forums.   Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:49 pm

I think the problem here is the understanding of the word drifting

by drift im talking weight, and tire slip angle. The weight of the car pushing to corner exit, the tire slip angle in relation to the wheel is maxed out, im not talking about counter steer, or burnouts side ways. Im talking about maintaining grip but going past maximum grip limits.

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PostSubject: Re: Save Touge on the Forza Forums.   Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:50 pm


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PostSubject: Re: Save Touge on the Forza Forums.   Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:58 pm

That's not drifting though, all the fastest drivers incorporate tire slip into their lap times, they push their tires so far they practically aren't connected to the ground anymore during cornering. The problem here is defining what drifting is. That video you posted back there would get you passed in a heartbeat by a lot of the people here.

Again with the theories though, if you believe so strongly in drifting for speed you need to post a good time before anyone takes it seriously.

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FullMoonKids
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PostSubject: Re: Save Touge on the Forza Forums.   Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:01 pm

Like i said in the adjoining post, Im not talking just forza here, and im not talking just time attack.

I use drifting mainly to block the ideal race line and to occupy the apex, I also use it cause its safer and more predictable and controllable than plowing understeer.

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PostSubject: Re: Save Touge on the Forza Forums.   Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:04 pm

and if you wanna see the beautiful drifting I am talking about,   watch this and watch the tires and the limited of counter steer


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PostSubject: Re: Save Touge on the Forza Forums.   Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:07 pm

Um drifting is not more controllable or safer when next to someone. Thats is fact. Lets see you go to skip barber's driving school and speak any of these theories. You will get laughed out of the building. If a tire is sliding it isnt applying power. You are losing forward momentum.

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PostSubject: Re: Save Touge on the Forza Forums.   Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:09 pm

I saw ONE M3 countersteer out of a turn and that wasnt to gain speed that loses speed. Hell i jsut watched an episode of hotversion where the reason the guy trailing didnt lose the round was because the guy in front of him got loose on the exit of a corner.

Then there was that Escort that drifted near the end and if you look you can see the guy behind him getting a run and passing him out of the corner. Your theory is false.

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FSCS Multi-Class Endurance Driver
[2-3] B-Class NDH 4:37.911 (Dirty) // 4:39.813 (Clean)
A-Class NUH 4:44.518 (Dirty)
<---- Yes thats really me.

Gamertag: Saintedplacebo4
PSN ID: Raven-Swan
GT6 Room nametag "J. Swan"


Last edited by SaintedPlacebo4 on Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Save Touge on the Forza Forums.   Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:11 pm

Well, this is a Forza community, not an actual racing community. I take it you know that you can't actually prove your theory on Forza so you're just moving the goalpost to something no one can prove by claiming it only works in real life.

We don't just time attack either, most of us race just as often as we hot lap. I'm not sure if you still claim that drifting can be faster than gripping, but even only drifting to "occupy the apex" is useless in the long run. I can show you why that is if you wish. Once again, prove your theory and we'll take it seriously.

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PostSubject: Re: Save Touge on the Forza Forums.   Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:14 pm

lol, so hard to convey via text. My goal in driving is to continue learning,but im trying to share my real world track and touge experince in pushing Real cars past the limits of grip, and past the limits of chassis capability. predictable over steer it way safer than understeer and if you cant understand that im sorry.


And I would love to battle some of you to gain more ndh experience.

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PostSubject: Re: Save Touge on the Forza Forums.   Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:16 pm

Ill run old downhill if you want. But im not racing an aero'd Lotus.

Real world? Show me the P1 Audi R-18's that drift because its faster. Oh right they dont.

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PostSubject: Re: Save Touge on the Forza Forums.   Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:19 pm

drifting is a form of car control, all im saying is.... It should be in your arsenal as a option, its all about context, and conditions. I wish i could find it but there is a video of a f1 car kicking the rear out of the car to make an opponent back off and it worked, the car trying to pass thought he was going to spin and was fooled into dropping back

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PostSubject: Re: Save Touge on the Forza Forums.   Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:23 pm

See i wouldnt purposely drift to scare, or block someone because its a dirty tactic. Maybe im way too timid but i dont even use my "one move" that real world drivers get. Yes in the real world a driver can make one abrupt out of line blocking maneuver. But even that is just rude. When should drift control be used in a race? When you screw up and need to save your ass from crashing, not to gain speed.

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[2-3] B-Class NDH 4:37.911 (Dirty) // 4:39.813 (Clean)
A-Class NUH 4:44.518 (Dirty)
<---- Yes thats really me.

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PostSubject: Re: Save Touge on the Forza Forums.   Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:24 pm

I'm not going to argue over real life racing technique because i'm painfully inexperienced in that field.

The problem here is what we're defining as drifting. That video of you on stage D reverse is not my idea of drifting, that's actually very impressive car control even for a Lotus Elise/Exige. The video after that isn't my idea of drifting either.

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PostSubject: Re: Save Touge on the Forza Forums.   Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:28 pm

another thing to think about, when cars are spinning out/ going off track. The inertia of the car+reduced friction of grass can cause the car to speed up going from asphalt to grass(if you dont dig in/flip). The same concept can apply to going past a tires limits(not all four tires, not both rears, but individual tire grip/friction. also you can change the turning radius this way, steering with throttle or using the ebreak to change balance(not possible in forza due to on/off ebreak)

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PostSubject: Re: Save Touge on the Forza Forums.   Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:35 pm

I drift not because it is a quicker way around a corner but the most exciting way.

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